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	<title>Comments on: Ronaldo&#8217;s Goalscoring Achievement 2007-8</title>
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	<link>http://mtmg.wordpress.com/2008/04/02/ronaldos-goalscoring-achievement-2007-8/</link>
	<description>James Hamilton on...</description>
	<pubDate>Sun, 20 Jul 2008 19:32:26 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: George S</title>
		<link>http://mtmg.wordpress.com/2008/04/02/ronaldos-goalscoring-achievement-2007-8/#comment-1250</link>
		<dc:creator>George S</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Apr 2008 22:01:03 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Ronaldo needs top players to work with. He is at his best when he can swop positions with Rooney or Tevez or Saha (on the odd occasion he plays.) But then most great players need other outstanding players to prosper. There are odd one-man performances, such as the Beckham versus Greece match you mention below but they are very rare.  Jon is right. It is the ensemble that makes it possible most of the time.

And there are great seasons in individual players' lives. It would be interesting to note them. Marcus Stewart had one such, as you mention, but Ginola and Asprilla had theirs. Micah Richards looked as though he might have one but then dropped away. The great players have more than one,. But then Ronaldo had a pretty good one last year too, I'd say. I don't think there has been a more watchable player in England this year or last.

But then I have just watched Theo Walcott beat four men from his own penalty area and lay the ball off for Adebayor to score. And still lose. Walcott's time may come.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ronaldo needs top players to work with. He is at his best when he can swop positions with Rooney or Tevez or Saha (on the odd occasion he plays.) But then most great players need other outstanding players to prosper. There are odd one-man performances, such as the Beckham versus Greece match you mention below but they are very rare.  Jon is right. It is the ensemble that makes it possible most of the time.</p>
<p>And there are great seasons in individual players&#8217; lives. It would be interesting to note them. Marcus Stewart had one such, as you mention, but Ginola and Asprilla had theirs. Micah Richards looked as though he might have one but then dropped away. The great players have more than one,. But then Ronaldo had a pretty good one last year too, I&#8217;d say. I don&#8217;t think there has been a more watchable player in England this year or last.</p>
<p>But then I have just watched Theo Walcott beat four men from his own penalty area and lay the ball off for Adebayor to score. And still lose. Walcott&#8217;s time may come.</p>
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		<title>By: Jon</title>
		<link>http://mtmg.wordpress.com/2008/04/02/ronaldos-goalscoring-achievement-2007-8/#comment-1244</link>
		<dc:creator>Jon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Apr 2008 15:44:46 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Good points - but having considered it I'm not sure I completely agree with your winger-striker theory. I agree that Ronaldo does score, as Henry did, a fair number of goals cutting in from the wing. And this could be one possible explanation for the lack of assists - a traditional winger was required to 'beat his man and whip it in' etc. But Ronaldo is also part of a United team that defies most normal offensive footballing conventions of the post-war period - neither Tevez nor Rooney could be considered as traditional 'target men', or 'poacher' strikers, allowing them instead to play a constantly moving brand of football that only Barcelona have come close to replicating. I would almost call  it 'attacking total football' as it means that any of the front 4/5, aside from Hargreaves/Carrick, can and do appear in any postion. The perfect encapsulation of that is the video you have just posted - Scholes, an attacking centre midfielder, picks the ball up out wide from Rooney, a striker, and crosses it in for the onrushing Ronaldo, a winger, to head a centre-forwards goal.

What we now see, therefore, is Ronaldo as the star act of an attacking ensemble.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good points - but having considered it I&#8217;m not sure I completely agree with your winger-striker theory. I agree that Ronaldo does score, as Henry did, a fair number of goals cutting in from the wing. And this could be one possible explanation for the lack of assists - a traditional winger was required to &#8216;beat his man and whip it in&#8217; etc. But Ronaldo is also part of a United team that defies most normal offensive footballing conventions of the post-war period - neither Tevez nor Rooney could be considered as traditional &#8216;target men&#8217;, or &#8216;poacher&#8217; strikers, allowing them instead to play a constantly moving brand of football that only Barcelona have come close to replicating. I would almost call  it &#8216;attacking total football&#8217; as it means that any of the front 4/5, aside from Hargreaves/Carrick, can and do appear in any postion. The perfect encapsulation of that is the video you have just posted - Scholes, an attacking centre midfielder, picks the ball up out wide from Rooney, a striker, and crosses it in for the onrushing Ronaldo, a winger, to head a centre-forwards goal.</p>
<p>What we now see, therefore, is Ronaldo as the star act of an attacking ensemble.</p>
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		<title>By: james</title>
		<link>http://mtmg.wordpress.com/2008/04/02/ronaldos-goalscoring-achievement-2007-8/#comment-1242</link>
		<dc:creator>james</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Apr 2008 15:06:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mtmg.wordpress.com/?p=508#comment-1242</guid>
		<description>@everybody: thanks! this is fascinating. Jon, it's interesting that Henry scored many of his goals either in or coming from a wide position. It's as if he, and Ronaldo, are willing to surrender the clogged midfield to the, er, cloggers, and to do their damage from the wing. Which raises the subject of whether it's right to consider Ronaldo as a midfielder at all, rather than one of a new breed of "wide strikers".

I've never understood the doesn't-perform-in-big-games thing either. Firstly, because big teams just don't get devastated in the way Ronaldo and Henry did lesser sides. Secondly, because I think certain commentators want him to compensate for his skill with a yellow streak. Thirdly, because he was brilliant against England in 2006, and - winking apart - won the game through sheer willpower and determination when his teammates were all for throwing in the towel.

That comparison on assists with Henry is telling - I wonder if it will prove to be a matter of inexperience that rights itself as time goes by, or if it will prove a long-term weakness.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@everybody: thanks! this is fascinating. Jon, it&#8217;s interesting that Henry scored many of his goals either in or coming from a wide position. It&#8217;s as if he, and Ronaldo, are willing to surrender the clogged midfield to the, er, cloggers, and to do their damage from the wing. Which raises the subject of whether it&#8217;s right to consider Ronaldo as a midfielder at all, rather than one of a new breed of &#8220;wide strikers&#8221;.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve never understood the doesn&#8217;t-perform-in-big-games thing either. Firstly, because big teams just don&#8217;t get devastated in the way Ronaldo and Henry did lesser sides. Secondly, because I think certain commentators want him to compensate for his skill with a yellow streak. Thirdly, because he was brilliant against England in 2006, and - winking apart - won the game through sheer willpower and determination when his teammates were all for throwing in the towel.</p>
<p>That comparison on assists with Henry is telling - I wonder if it will prove to be a matter of inexperience that rights itself as time goes by, or if it will prove a long-term weakness.</p>
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		<title>By: Jon</title>
		<link>http://mtmg.wordpress.com/2008/04/02/ronaldos-goalscoring-achievement-2007-8/#comment-1241</link>
		<dc:creator>Jon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Apr 2008 13:50:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mtmg.wordpress.com/?p=508#comment-1241</guid>
		<description>3 so far this season I believe, but has only got a strike-rate of around 1 every 3 games overall (20 in 54). Will be interesting to see if Portugal push him further forward (as Ferguson did v. Portsmouth [?] earlier this season) to compensate for their lack of top-level strikers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>3 so far this season I believe, but has only got a strike-rate of around 1 every 3 games overall (20 in 54). Will be interesting to see if Portugal push him further forward (as Ferguson did v. Portsmouth [?] earlier this season) to compensate for their lack of top-level strikers.</p>
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		<title>By: Matthew</title>
		<link>http://mtmg.wordpress.com/2008/04/02/ronaldos-goalscoring-achievement-2007-8/#comment-1240</link>
		<dc:creator>Matthew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Apr 2008 13:31:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mtmg.wordpress.com/?p=508#comment-1240</guid>
		<description>Of course there's also the European Championship this year - has he been scoring goals for Portugal?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Of course there&#8217;s also the European Championship this year - has he been scoring goals for Portugal?</p>
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		<title>By: Jon</title>
		<link>http://mtmg.wordpress.com/2008/04/02/ronaldos-goalscoring-achievement-2007-8/#comment-1239</link>
		<dc:creator>Jon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Apr 2008 13:09:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mtmg.wordpress.com/?p=508#comment-1239</guid>
		<description>Interesting stuff all round. The obvious point that hasn't been made, of course, is that Ronaldo is still ostensibly a winger. If Ronaldo does continue to score at the rate of, say, a Dixie Dean, then the next debate is whether this represents a new style of football? As far as I know, there has never been a winger that has scored so prolifically at the highest level, thus leaving Ronaldo to become almost totally unique in the game. 

Despite this, it would seem that three criticisms are still being levelled at Ronaldo. First, that he does not perform in big games. I've never understood this; "Big Games" seem to be a Sky-manufactured myth, and I have no doubt that Ronaldo will go on to refute this. Interestingly, he has only scored 3 goals in 40 games against the other members of the 'Big Four'. Secondly, some have commented on the detrimental affect of Ronaldo's goal-scoring on his season's assists. Looking at the statistics in the league, he has only provided 6 assists all season, roughly equivalent to Fulham's Simon Davies. This is in stark contrast to Thierry Henry, who provided almost as many assists as goals in his most prolific Arsenal seasons. Finally, the most subtle criticism was made by Brian Glanville this week. Despite my disliking for the man's 'good old days' approach, he did seem to make a good point about Ronaldo's inability to 'control' the game in the manner of a Zidane, a Platini or a Cruyff. This, again, sparks another major debate; whose role in a game is more important, those who score the goals or those who make them?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting stuff all round. The obvious point that hasn&#8217;t been made, of course, is that Ronaldo is still ostensibly a winger. If Ronaldo does continue to score at the rate of, say, a Dixie Dean, then the next debate is whether this represents a new style of football? As far as I know, there has never been a winger that has scored so prolifically at the highest level, thus leaving Ronaldo to become almost totally unique in the game. </p>
<p>Despite this, it would seem that three criticisms are still being levelled at Ronaldo. First, that he does not perform in big games. I&#8217;ve never understood this; &#8220;Big Games&#8221; seem to be a Sky-manufactured myth, and I have no doubt that Ronaldo will go on to refute this. Interestingly, he has only scored 3 goals in 40 games against the other members of the &#8216;Big Four&#8217;. Secondly, some have commented on the detrimental affect of Ronaldo&#8217;s goal-scoring on his season&#8217;s assists. Looking at the statistics in the league, he has only provided 6 assists all season, roughly equivalent to Fulham&#8217;s Simon Davies. This is in stark contrast to Thierry Henry, who provided almost as many assists as goals in his most prolific Arsenal seasons. Finally, the most subtle criticism was made by Brian Glanville this week. Despite my disliking for the man&#8217;s &#8216;good old days&#8217; approach, he did seem to make a good point about Ronaldo&#8217;s inability to &#8216;control&#8217; the game in the manner of a Zidane, a Platini or a Cruyff. This, again, sparks another major debate; whose role in a game is more important, those who score the goals or those who make them?</p>
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		<title>By: Matthew</title>
		<link>http://mtmg.wordpress.com/2008/04/02/ronaldos-goalscoring-achievement-2007-8/#comment-1237</link>
		<dc:creator>Matthew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Apr 2008 12:11:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mtmg.wordpress.com/?p=508#comment-1237</guid>
		<description>Supporting your point about defences, there were also more goals around then, with an average of 3.6 to 3.8 per game rather than the 2.6 this season. 

It means Ronaldo has scored 3.1% of all the goals in the Premiership this season, which Dean only bettered in his 60 goal season (ending 1928) when he scored 3.4%. His best other than that was 2.6% in the season ending 1932. 

Of course he might have played fewer or more games than Ronaldo, and if you compare his goals per game, which range from 0.62 to 1.54, with an average of 0.94, with Ronaldo's, which is 0.93, as a % of the average goals per game in the league, then Ronaldo's is 36% of the average, whilst Dean's ranged from 17% to 40% (in the 60 goal season), but was only above Ronaldo's in the 60 goal season and averaged 25%.

In terms of their own teams, Ronaldo's scored 38% of Man U's goals, which is exactly the same as Dean's average in the seasons you list as a % of Everton's.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Supporting your point about defences, there were also more goals around then, with an average of 3.6 to 3.8 per game rather than the 2.6 this season. </p>
<p>It means Ronaldo has scored 3.1% of all the goals in the Premiership this season, which Dean only bettered in his 60 goal season (ending 192 <img src='http://s.wordpress.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_cool.gif' alt='8)' class='wp-smiley' /> when he scored 3.4%. His best other than that was 2.6% in the season ending 1932. </p>
<p>Of course he might have played fewer or more games than Ronaldo, and if you compare his goals per game, which range from 0.62 to 1.54, with an average of 0.94, with Ronaldo&#8217;s, which is 0.93, as a % of the average goals per game in the league, then Ronaldo&#8217;s is 36% of the average, whilst Dean&#8217;s ranged from 17% to 40% (in the 60 goal season), but was only above Ronaldo&#8217;s in the 60 goal season and averaged 25%.</p>
<p>In terms of their own teams, Ronaldo&#8217;s scored 38% of Man U&#8217;s goals, which is exactly the same as Dean&#8217;s average in the seasons you list as a % of Everton&#8217;s.</p>
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		<title>By: Rusty</title>
		<link>http://mtmg.wordpress.com/2008/04/02/ronaldos-goalscoring-achievement-2007-8/#comment-1236</link>
		<dc:creator>Rusty</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Apr 2008 09:07:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mtmg.wordpress.com/?p=508#comment-1236</guid>
		<description>What... no mention of the great Matt Le Tissier for a comparison in the modern game!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What&#8230; no mention of the great Matt Le Tissier for a comparison in the modern game!</p>
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